Official Luthiers Forum!

David Collins and Alain Lambert are the Best!!!!
I have always struggled with intonation. I am currently intonating the All
Koa guitar. In the past I have struggled with how much to move the brake
point for intonation. When sharp...I moved it back.... When flat I moved it
forward. I never new how much.
NOW with the excel calculator/spreadsheet, I just enter the cents off and
VOILA!!!!!!
It was dead on. You two have save me a TON of trail and error work!!!

THANK YOU THANK YOU

Any of you that have had difficulty with intonating a saddle, USE THIS
SPREADSHEET/CALCULATOR!!!!!

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

I know what you mean Andy. The system David described is great, and then to have it followed up with Alain's excel sheet made it perfect!! I saved it all on my computer last night. Now even a dummy like me can intone like a Pro!!!Joe Beaver39054.5680555556

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Can someone e-mail me that spread sheet? I have a nut/string space calculator I can trade (thanks again Anthony Z!!!)

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Yes, where can we get that spreadsheet?
-j.

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“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”
-jack handy

It is on this thread
TID=9126&PN=1#%23130810">Other thread

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

Teriffic spreadsheet. Thanks Alain and David!!!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Andy, that link dumps me back at the entrance to the forum.

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Aoibeann

Thanks all, David did the hard part (thinking).
The sheet is not very sophisticated but it does what it should
Here is the link to the discussion
Intonation Calculator

YUP!! Thanks a WHOLE lot!

Shane

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Canada

Thanks guys it is appreciated. I made sure to save your methods and spreadsheet for future use.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Thanks.

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Aoibeann

Thanks from here too!

Having been at this game since 99, this is one of those rare posts where one must pay attention.

Years ago having studied Franks Frets.com, he made us all aware of this formula.

Now, David and Alain, have put street clothes on this so we all can use it without the tremendous mental gymnastics.

I propose an OLF Luthiergem Trophy Award for this double submission of the excellent description of the process by David, coupled with the simple and effective spreadsheet by Alain. I echo the kudos given by the others David and Alain. Do I hear any seconds from the floor?

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I wanted to add a quick note to
the topic though, reminding folks that it's easy to get so caught up in
achieving "perfect intonation" that it won't take long before you start
pulling you hair out. Temperament is another topic, but it's worth
reminding that we're working with an imperfect scale as it is. When
aiming for the best intonation, the biggest challenge is the width of the
range of human error.

If you try to set the intonation within a 1 cent tolerance, you quickly find
that you can play the same note 5 times and get as many as 5 different
readings even when trying to press and pluck consistantly. Then add that
sometimes a not is fretted by itself, sometimes it is also pressed in two
places (as in a bar chord), sometimes you slide up to it, sometimes down.
The hand positions of different chord shapes may put the finger at
varying positions behind the fret for the same note. The list goes on and
on, and it's quite easy to say that there is at least a +/-2 or 3 cent margin
of error for most players.

My approach is to shoot for the middle of what I feel the margin of error
is for that particular player and instrument. This means when I'm setting
up instruments for one of the local studios, I will lean toward setting to a
gentler playing style (even if the player is going for that "live" style, in the
studio they will rarely grab and play with the same oomph as they do
under stage lights in front of a crowd). For a strictly first position player I
may lead toward more nut compensation. If I'm refretting a 2 year old
guitar with frets that have been worn to nothing, I obviously know that
the player has a very heavy left had grip, and am going to lean toward a
little more compensation. Of course this goes on and on, but all comes
down to recognizing there is no one perfect setup, and different players
and styles have different needs.

So although equations are certainly nice and can be very handy to figure
things out, it is still just one precise calculation that relies on a whole lot
of not so precise variables. It's good to lessen errors in one small part of
the process, but it still relies on the skill of the one doing the work, as
well as thier willingness to pay attention to details.

I have to admit that I used this as a learning tool for quite a while and it
certainly helped me much. However in recent years I've found that I can
look, listen, and shape a saddle without measurements or formulas with
as good of results as the method I described above. I still do use it when
that little voice tells me it would be the quicker or better route for that
instrument. More often I guess I approach it as more of a Fermi problem,
with reassuring results.

In short, this is not the one-size-fits-all method for setting intonation,
but it can be very useful (and for geeks like me, a little fun). Just a
reminder not to pull your hair out, or think that this will bring your
instruments to a precise perfection where one does not exist.David Collins39055.7140277778

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.